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Template talk:Infobox creature
Total Scores What's this for? The sum of STR, DEX, etc.? If so – to what purpose? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 14:09, October 8, 2017 (UTC) : High total scores make the creature look strong? :D But really, it may even be so in some cases, and the companion page has this section, so… Islandking♔ ♙ 14:30, October 8, 2017 (UTC) AI scripts and general IB stuff First of all – you can agree with my edits before, Islandking? Short explanation: the code inside the s usually serves as copy-and-paste template for the editor who wants to use the infobox. So I thought it would be best to remove the unrecommended legacy fields from it, and don't present them in the description as well. Though in addition to their own subsection, they are still part of the example infobox. Well, that was my main concern. I only noticed then how many parameters actually were missing from the description and how unsorted the existing ones were arranged. There are still fields without an explanation – if you have one, please fill them. ;) I didn't separate that all like I did on the Template:Infobox item. This follows the draft's structure that's created when making an infobox portable. It's there where this stuff and usage and such is already present. Apparently Wikia moves away from a clean separation of template and documentation. Any opinions on this? But now for my actual question, regarding the new field AI scripts: * Near Infinity lists in the View tab the Script name first, in the Edit tab, however, it comes last and is only a string field, where you don't have a choice of various scripts, rather have to input the desired text. Is this field of any relevance? * Is there a certain priority for the scripts in case they deal with the same things? And might this be the order, NI lists them? :# Override (makes sense, this at the first place) :# Class :# Race :# General :# Default -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:03, November 12, 2017 (UTC) ---- Thank you CompleCCity, for expanding the descriptions. I forgot (or be pure ~lazy~ :D) to adjust a lot of descriptions, and I think it’d be great if you can clean the creature template by separating into documentations as you did in the item IB, much better and limiting the possibilities of encounting the non-portable bug (editing doc no longer affect the IB itself) There’re some creatures with more than one scripts in the NI I’m currently viewing, however I’m not an expert in NI, are you implying that a creature may use only one script even if there’re multiple .bsc present at the same time? I think it’s safe to list the order as NI does, the best scenario imo is to make a ease-to-read summary AI behavior in the “AI Script” field (for casual players), while providing links to the dedicated script page (for hardcore players' references) in it, like the Demogorgon page. Islandking♔ ♙ 12:38, November 12, 2017 (UTC) ---- Say, is the wiki for you as slow as it is for me? That's now the second day, other sites are fine … Just took my first look at the Demogorgon – and have to say that I not absolutely agree with you here: neither for it being a model enemy page, nor for all that much info in the box. That shall be an article, not a box only, if you understand what I mean. ;) This wiki has the longest infoboxes I've ever come across. And many articles are stubs, regarding the out-of-box content of the page, which definitely applies to the Demogorgon – and as such, though not tagged as one, it can't be a model. But even if you expanded the article a lot – the height of that infobox currently takes around 10 times of the article text at 1080p. 10 times! I'd say, reduce the AI section, as well as the excl. items, to links only. Go on copy-pasting scripts to pages (perhaps some formatting could be done, to remove the horizontal scroll bar, but I currently don't know how), but perhaps add an explanatory section to it (at the top) in addition to the source code. At least for general scripts that are used by many creatures. Elaborations of exclusive scripts and items and such could well fit onto the main article space, and would fill it, making it less stubby. What do you think? (Alternatively you could change the basic article layout and make this an infobox only wiki, setting class infobox to use width=100%. ;) About scripts' priorities: no, I don't think only one script is used at all. But there will be an order in which scripts are checked for the needed conditions. So if there are two scripts assigned, both with the check "NearestEnemy", only one will be executed. That's what I meant with priority. And I guess, Override beats them all. And in addition to this: Why not making all 5 scipt types part of that IB section, leaving the title as is, "AI Scripts", and then a field for every possible one (hidden if empty), in the order that's given by NI? Do you have enough knowledge of the scripting to be able to elaborate Demogorgon's script that well? Or might you be wrong with certain details? Another thing I had in mind: before I edited the IB fields' description, magic fire and cold where placed below magic res., as they are in NI. I've moved them up to fire and cold, respectively, as they are listed in the current IB. Should we move those back, together with their fields in the IB? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:36, November 12, 2017 (UTC) ---- I also thought of listing some info horizontally, like Saving Throws Death 3 | Wand 3| Polymorph 3| Breath 3| Spells 3 But I don’t know how to do it either :-( The reason Demogorgon page is listed as model is that it contents info, which I think every creature page should do, instead of a vague list of ability scores which don’t have much actual use at all. But I know the issue, I just NI-ed the page and it’s far from being final, it will be reorganized gradually, just need more time & ideas :-) Any thoughts on how to name the headings in the article accordingly? About script, I’m fairly certain of what I’ve elaborated, from both ease-to-understand code and my play experiences, I won’t write things I don’t understand, and I hope SCS won’t alter the scripts too much, but I’ve already checked “Ignore Overrides” which most mods use and restarted NI afterwards. I support the move up you’ve done, sometimes minor twists from NI for convenience won’t hurt :-) EDIT: I've experieced slow connections to wikia, it was about a month ago, it should go away after a few days. EDIT 2: If we're going to move most content to article and links only in IB, we don't need didicated cells for each AI type, we can just use bullets to separate them. Islandking♔ ♙ 14:11, November 12, 2017 (UTC) ---- We can also just make those length cells collapsed by default, saves all the touble. Islandking♔ ♙ 15:58, November 12, 2017 (UTC) Removal of Creature Type Why? Why not add the allegiance? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 11:40, November 20, 2017 (UTC) ---- Just figured out the data source "creature type" was added by me not long time ago, so I'm replacing it with "allegiance", the damage should be minimal :-) Islandking♔ ♙ 13:10, November 20, 2017 (UTC) ---- Honestly? That's no answer. ;) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:26, November 20, 2017 (UTC) Class: INNOCENT Just stumbled upon something which I haven't researched now (pretty sure, there's info about somewhere in the depths of the internet) – it appears as the class determines the reputation change. There are columns in REPUTATI.2da named "KILL_INNOCENT", "INJURE_INNOCENT", "KILL_FIST", "KILL_WATCHER", "KILL_AMNISH" and "KILL_GUARD" which all lead to a potential loss of reputation. And the (mostly) classified Civilians all seem to have "INNOCENT - 155" as their class, while Flaming Fists are "FLAMING_FIST - 156", Amnish Soldiers are "AMNISH SOLDIER - 212". Haven't found references to "GUARD" and "WATCHER", yet. That's one more point for my idea of switching the class label from "Civilian" to "Innocent". The class of Fists and the other authorities, however, should rather reflect their ability class – acting as a fighter, mage, whatever –, but it's apparently a clear way how to fill the reputation if killed field. Worth a category, as well. Was this all known already? ;) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:25, March 1, 2018 (UTC) :At least this may apply to the original games, as the enhanced edition creatures have "Reputation gain/loss when …" parameters in their files – which I just discovered. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 11:45, March 3, 2018 (UTC) Expansion/clean-up This more serves as a concept and notes about future changes to the box, but of course everybody's invited to open a discussion about it. As per the nature of this, it will get expanded, modified, edited – something that's usually not done with talk page sections. Just informing. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:52, October 11, 2018 (UTC) As of now, this is a simple listing of all the entries as they are shown by Near Infinity, EE Keeper (though the latter adds lots of stuff not creature related) and the current infobox. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 07:39, October 14, 2018 (UTC)